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Transmission Is Through Earth - Experimental Proof


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#1 dR-Green

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 03:26 AM

I also posted this on EF.

 

Experimental proof that the energy is transmitted through the earth by means of simply having multiple earth points set at various distances from the transmitter earth terminal and connecting to each one to receive. Simple.

 

 

20-22mm diameter copper pipes are used for receiver earth terminals. Details will follow. The transmitter has an earth rod of unknown length with 20cm or so and 37cm lengths of copper pipe in parallel, but the length of the ones connected to the transmitter are irrelevant in this experiment.

 

Distance from transmitter earth terminal (metres) : Pipe length (metres)

0.13 : 0.3
0.37 : 0.3
0.72 : 0.3
0.97 : 0.3
1.47 : 0.3
1.98 : 0.65 (doesn't count due to extra pipe length therefore better reception)

Also not shown in the video (but shown in diagram) are the two dirty earth rods which were put into the ground at a random distance for test purposes, both connected in parallel for receiving. Transmission distance in that case is 3.46 metres.

Transmitting and receiving coils are approx 10.3 metres apart (with stone wall blocking line of sight).

 

Power input:

 

F = 3670 kc
L = 0.66µH approx
Primary impedance (2Pi*F*L) approx = 15 ohms

 

Primary voltage = +/-0.7V = 1.4V p-p

I = 46.6mA

Peak Power = 32.6mW

RMS Power = 23mW

 

Test tone = C5 = 523.251 cycles/sec

 

2jc0.jpg

Scope probe locations:

 

rwfc.jpg

 

Waveform A (left) is the receiver primary voltage, Waveform B (right) is the audio signal.

Transmission distance = 0.13 metres

 

vc7p.jpg

 

Transmission distance = 0.37 metres

 

r8d1.jpg

 

Transmission distance = 0.72 metres

 

er6u.jpg

 

Transmission distance = 0.97 metres

 

dn0d.jpg

 

Transmission distance = 1.47 metres

 

w29e.jpg

 

Transmission distance = 1.98 metres (doesn't count)

 

xh5p.jpg

 

Transmission distance = 3.46 metres (not in video)

 

0rpa.jpg

 

Notes:

Many effects observed confirm that a bucket of soil accurately simulates a Telluric transmission situation, within obvious reason. Receiver is seen to respond even when standing on the ground around the transmitter earth terminal when holding a wire leading to the receiver in hand (and touching metal), and transmission will equally pass through human body when holding the wire to receiver in one hand and touching the transmitter earth terminal with the other hand. Laying the wire leading to the receiver on the ground around transmitter earth terminal also allows for reception of signal. This was to be filmed but the rains came again and this time the receiver was not sheltered so I was forced to abort.


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#2 Raui

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 07:19 AM

Nice work, as always, dR! I would be interested in seeing both coils being put into faraday cages, that ought to really put a nail in the coffin so to speak to the atmospheric transmission theories of regular EEs and physicists.


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#3 dR-Green

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 02:44 PM

Thanks.Yes I'd like to try that too but it's not easy trying to come up with ways of how to go about it without going to a lot of work building boxes/rooms and finding suitable materials etc. In my opinion the Faraday cage would have to be big enough so that the coil doesn't need to be retuned inside it, so I'd say minimum 2 metre cube.

 

Eric said that it can't be caged, and I think that might explain what I've been observing for a while. The coil can be tuned for maximum potential using the variable condenser on the secondary, but then my body capacitance can make it go even higher, which is a shame because I can't stand there permanently to make it work. I think the self capacitance of the coil, or the (terminal) capacitance to space, is responsible for this effect, it seems to happen on all coils, on both transmitter and receiver. You might notice I don't have any real terminal capacities on the coils in the video, the "terminal" is just one of the condenser plates or rings, so I think the capacitance to space is not enough. So it might work inside a Faraday cage as evidence, but I don't think it will work very well based on my opinion of the whole thing at this moment in time. But there's only one way to find out for sure! I'm not likely to build a 2 metre metal box any time soon but I'll give it a try if I can find something suitable.

 

[edit] Although, seeing as this effect happens on all coils, this can be determined without even transmitting anything. If the transmitter is caged then we will see the effect it has without needing a receiver.


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#4 ColoradoSpringsFilms

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:32 PM

Hey Dr.

 

Question, you mention how, since this is solid state, you can't drive too much power or risk frying components, like your op-amp you mention I believe. Have you ever tried driving this with say square wave input rather than sine and compared the results? I know for the analog computer square wave yields better results? Any thoughts Dr or would this not work?

 

John


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#5 dR-Green

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 05:16 PM

Hi John. This preamp is suitable for +/- operation or "pulsed DC" operation depending on the input signal DC offset (or biasing). For square waves I bias the input so I only use positive pulses so the output is half the voltage of a +/- sine with the same circuit.

 

But no I haven't used square waves in actual application/testing for more than a few minutes because it can be deceiving. A square wave would apparently give more power because it reaches full voltage theoretically at turn on, whereas a sine wave is a gradual rise to full voltage and then it falls again. So in a given amount of time there's more power in the square wave and it would appear to be "better". I'm not necessarily looking for maximum power at this stage.

 

Also this is basically a continuation/extension of the testing of the coil so I use sine waves to avoid producing all kinds of harmonics and tuning in to wrong things etc. This video shows the difference in harmonics between sine and square using an audio signal and spectrum analyser ([edit] the first couple of minutes, then I get carried away with PWM):

 


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#6 ColoradoSpringsFilms

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 05:57 PM

Thanks doc. 

I understand what your saying about the results being deceiving. 

Thanks for the clarification. I'll get back to you if I have some more questions.


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#7 dR-Green

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 05:38 PM

Thanks doc. 

I understand what your saying about the results being deceiving. 

Thanks for the clarification. I'll get back to you if I have some more questions.

 

You're welcome. Eric would also like to see more experiments posted on the other forum.


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#8 dR-Green

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 05:39 PM

Is there no conventionalist argument against this case, or have we established that the transmission is indeed through the earth?


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#9 jimm

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 02:59 PM

Is there no conventionalist argument against this case, or have we established that the transmission is indeed through the earth?

Somebody call me?  :D

 

You can conduct electricity through a bucket of  salt water too! However , as I asked before, is it possible or practical to recover 95% at a considerable  distance?

Is it possible at 300 to 1000 feet?

Tesla himself, recognized that the top cap was the other "conductor" originally conceived to conduct through ionized air at 35,000 feet!

Don't take my word for it,It's in the patents, read it for yourself.

Also, if power currents are passed through the earth, the dangerous possibility of "hot ground" surfaces exist in areas of poor conductivity.

 

There is no doubt that that the earth plays an important role in signal propagation, but to what extent can it be perfected?

 

My problem with your setup was that everything is in very close proximity, so Marconi type propagation and inductive coupling are not ruled out.

( Ok , putting on my flame retardant suit now...)   :(


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#10 Robert

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 04:52 PM

It's possible that Hertzian waves through the Earth comprise a part of what you are detecting.

 

Also, in the Borderlands video where Eric took the receiver to the beach, weren't transmitter and receiver tuned to one another?

 

So I'm thinking that if you don't tune your system so that transmitter and receiver resonate on the longitudinal waves, then the Hertzian component may be a major part of the signal, and subject to attenuation with distance.


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#11 jimm

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 11:49 PM

It's possible that Hertzian waves through the Earth comprise a part of what you are detecting.

 

Also, in the Borderlands video where Eric took the receiver to the beach, weren't transmitter and receiver tuned to one another?

 

So I'm thinking that if you don't tune your system so that transmitter and receiver resonate on the longitudinal waves, then the Hertzian component may be a major part of the signal, and subject to attenuation with distance.

 

Despite what was on the video there is no "longitudinal resonance" that is different from the LC result.  Sure, you can get it to resonate at harmonics, but none work as well as the fundamental. I believe EpD  got tha 1.5X effect because of the strange way the spiral was wound. None the less, he only got a "signal" on the beach, no power.

Tesla doesn't talk about a different 1.5X fundamental resonance that I can recall either. This is more of a "Dollard theory" than anything to do with Tesla.

 

You are building a set of coils if I remember correctly,  so check it it out for yourself, you will see... a tight or space wound standard coil will work on odd harmonics but that's about it.


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#12 Robert

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 12:19 AM

"He only got a signal but no power."

 

How do you get a signal with no power?

 

Regarding "Dollard Theory": Tesla was not big on theory; it was up to his successors, principally Steinmetz, and Dollard (wow) to construct a theoretical framework.


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#13 jimm

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 02:03 AM

"He only got a signal but no power."

 

How do you get a signal with no power?

 

Regarding "Dollard Theory": Tesla was not big on theory; it was up to his successors, principally Steinmetz, and Dollard (wow) to construct a theoretical framework.

 

Ok here's my definition:

an example would be:

signal, no power = 100 watts input from transmitter, 1 microwatt of power in the receiver.(standard marconi EM radio)

wardenclyffe  analogy = 100 watts input from transmitter , 95 watts in receiver ( able to light bulbs, etc)

 

So, nobody has really achieved what tesla proclaimed to be possible. This is true primarily because it is too difficult to accomplish in the physical world without extraordinary expense. It's not the coils winding or "golden section mysticism" but the depth and integrity of the grounding system ( both tx and rx) not the mention the two options for the atmospheric connection:

 A metalic balloon at 35000 feet ...or  mucho megavolts for a wardencyffe style transmitter

Not to mention all of the wire you would need for VLF operation.

 

Please note that Eric said that he "figured it out", but NEVER said he could do it!


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#14 dR-Green

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 02:49 AM

Despite what was on the video there is no "longitudinal resonance" that is different from the LC result.  Sure, you can get it to resonate at harmonics, but none work as well as the fundamental. I believe EpD  got tha 1.5X effect because of the strange way the spiral was wound.

 

You might be shocked to hear that I agree.

 

Tuning (transmitter to receiver) is based on exactly the same principle as normal radio. It's either tuned to transmit/receive, or it's not. There's one fundamental frequency in these coils (CS solenoid type).

 

The "Hertzian component" in this case is simply the "high voltage" that's radiated around the coil itself and any terminal capacitance.

 

More later.


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#15 Robert

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 10:42 AM

Thanks for the replies. Now, I would be the first to admit I'm on shaky ground in discussing this, this but I'm game.

 

When I said "tuning" I wasn't saying that the longitudinal waves have a different frequency than the hertzian waves. I was thinking primarily of the design of the equipment so as to only transmit and receive the correct kind of waves. After all, how one be sure that only longitudinal waves are being transmitted, in any setup? And if the setup is poorly designed then the hertzian component might be large.


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#16 jimm

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:00 PM

Thanks for the replies. Now, I would be the first to admit I'm on shaky ground in discussing this, this but I'm game.

 

When I said "tuning" I wasn't saying that the longitudinal waves have a different frequency than the hertzian waves. I was thinking primarily of the design of the equipment so as to only transmit and receive the correct kind of waves. After all, how one be sure that only longitudinal waves are being transmitted, in any setup? And if the setup is poorly designed then the hertzian component might be large.

Again, back to Tesla, who was basically doing LC resonance and  various coil designs to obtain the best results. I never saw anything about longitudinal/hertzian convergence in any of his notes. That "convergence" only exists in the mind of one Eric Dollard.

The Tesla "secret" is all there for anyone to read.

1)Massive grounding system

2)High voltage

3)VLF

 

The difference is in the dielectric electrostatic coupling and deep earth grounding .

There is a document where Tesla states that the TMT could only transmit power for 200 miles due to "fatal flaws".

None the less, it would be interesting to explore the  dynamics of such a system and if the "action at a distance" actually happens.

It would validate the longitudinal theory and open up whole host of other concepts.


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#17 dR-Green

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:42 PM

Somebody call me?  :D

 

You can conduct electricity through a bucket of  salt water too! However , as I asked before, is it possible or practical to recover 95% at a considerable  distance?

Is it possible at 300 to 1000 feet?

Tesla himself, recognized that the top cap was the other "conductor" originally conceived to conduct through ionized air at 35,000 feet!

Don't take my word for it,It's in the patents, read it for yourself.

Also, if power currents are passed through the earth, the dangerous possibility of "hot ground" surfaces exist in areas of poor conductivity.

 

There is no doubt that that the earth plays an important role in signal propagation, but to what extent can it be perfected?

 

My problem with your setup was that everything is in very close proximity, so Marconi type propagation and inductive coupling are not ruled out.

( Ok , putting on my flame retardant suit now...)   :(

 

I'm not that stupid :P Pure water is more interesting. I don't know what the DC resistance would be through 2 metres of earth but I think safe to say "big".

 

I can't make any claims of 95% efficiency because I have not observed it. Then again I don't have RF watt meters (to put) on the output or input. But it's not a default or "automatic" result. That is, you don't just set up a transmitter and receiver and you suddenly have 95% efficiency. In this case the transmitter isn't optimised at all, and I hadn't tuned the receiver properly (using the proper tuning procedure), the receiver was just tuned to the signal source via the earth and balanced for primary voltage reading and audible signal level for the purpose of putting it in the video. With proper grounding and optimised coils who knows. Frankly I wouldn't have expected my setup to have worked at 2 metres given how crude the whole thing was and how little power I was using. I was putting copper pipes in the ground at random distances because my "conservative" efforts were turning out to be a waste of time because they all worked, I had to start trying random greater distances to try and make it NOT work.

 

Yes, Tesla did at first think of transmitting the energy through the air, but as far as I know he completely abandoned that idea, or at least adapted it. Even in my own experiments I've "discovered" (observed the effect before reading about it) something that I'm sure Tesla would have observed and been very excited by, causing him to adapt his ideas. By playing with the "wireless" around the top terminal one may start to wonder about more possibilities, as the human body appears to be quite conductive as a transmission medium allowing one to power loads at a greater distance from the coil, because the body is acting as a conductive medium in between the coil and the load. The thought then occurs, "what if I were to touch the coil terminal, and had infinitely long arms..." Just saying, ideas and opinions are adapted over time through experimenting with it and learning new things.

 

How does the Marconi type propagation argument stand when the output is observed to change based solely on the earth terminal? It shouldn't make any difference.

 

What would you consider to be reasonable power levels and distances? In the video I was using approx 23mW which basically means the setup would have to be relatively close range. But by increasing the power and distance, one may then argue that it's only working because of the higher power. So what is one to do? Go inside a cave? There aren't any that I know of around here, but there are plenty of mountains to stand behind. But then the signal is bouncing off the atmosphere :wacko: So what kind of power level doesn't supposedly bounce off the atmosphere, and so on?


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#18 dR-Green

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:54 PM

Ok here's my definition:

an example would be:

signal, no power = 100 watts input from transmitter, 1 microwatt of power in the receiver.(standard marconi EM radio)

wardenclyffe  analogy = 100 watts input from transmitter , 95 watts in receiver ( able to light bulbs, etc)

 

So, nobody has really achieved what tesla proclaimed to be possible.

 

Again, no RF watt meters used for actual measurement, but there's no amplification on the receiving end in the video. All the power at the receiving end is supplied from the transmitter. Input (to transmitter primary) is less than 23mW RMS to begin with. How likely is it to work at all?


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#19 dR-Green

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 04:02 PM

Thanks for the replies. Now, I would be the first to admit I'm on shaky ground in discussing this, this but I'm game.

 

When I said "tuning" I wasn't saying that the longitudinal waves have a different frequency than the hertzian waves. I was thinking primarily of the design of the equipment so as to only transmit and receive the correct kind of waves. After all, how one be sure that only longitudinal waves are being transmitted, in any setup? And if the setup is poorly designed then the hertzian component might be large.

 

To transmit via the conventional method you simply use a small terminal capacitance that can't "contain" the energy so it escapes/radiates into space, or use a vertical wire like in Tesla's diagram etc. Otherwise this terminal capacitance acts as a reflector to reflect the wave back down through the coil into the earth.


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#20 G4ΓΓ3ττ

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:09 PM

dR-Green

 

Herzian wave propagation is highly complex and nearly everything in the path affects their propagation from the radiator to the receiver. The Tesla transfromer can have multiple *effective* radiator elements at any one time, electric monopol and dipole being the most common.

 

Read the Preface of Hund's Short-Wave Radiation Phenomena (Vol1 Vol2), and if you feel like it, skim through the chapters and look at different radiators and modes of propagation. You will find that it's not really as simple as adding extra capacitance to the top terminal to prevent the transformer from acting as a radiator.


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